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| #3 |
2-07-2005 @ 08:04:22 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
Yeah, I think it usually works fairly well.
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| #5 |
2-07-2005 @ 08:47:18 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
Are they going to make it? FIA GT awaits... It would fit nicely in GTN group (to 450hp).
Wait. T3h AxL3!!!
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| #6 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:10:01 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
A 3-link solid axle, although crude, is not that bad a suspension setup and actually has decent enough track potential.
For example, Maximum Motorsports and some of the other aftermarket suspension companies really aren't pushing the '99-04 independent rear that hard--they all seem to have their own live-axle solutions, such as three-link, five-link, and torque arm setups. Personally, I'm undecided whether I want to spend $1000ish upgrading my live axle setup, or whether I want to try to find a Cobra owner who wants my 8.8" solid axle. A good live-axle setup does have handling potential, but the ride harshness tends to be pretty severe because of all the unsprung weight that flies around every time you hit a bump.
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| #7 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:12:08 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#6, Even Top Gear fellows said it handles OK.
But... Well, if it's really not that bad I want to see Stangs racing!!! And not on ovals!
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| #8 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:16:09 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
Uh... What's with the link setups?
Live axle has leafsprings/coils, shocks, sway bar, can have struts and the anti-windup-something... So a coils+shocks+strut live axle is 3 link?
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| #9 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:31:26 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#7, SCCA American Sedan class..
#8--wrong. Most modern (non-truck) live axle setups use control arms instead of leaf springs. The 1979-2004 Ford Mustangs used a 4-link ( http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm ) which consists of two lower control arms and two non-parallel upper control arms. The 2005 Mustangs use a 3-link, which consists of two lower control arms, one upper control arm, and a Panhard bar to locate the axle laterally.
Other setups include the torque arm/Panhard combo, where there are no upper control arms and a torque arm (which is usually attached up near the transmission) controls pinion angle and prevents windup (Camaros use this), as well as the five-link, where a Panhard bar is used in combination with longer upper control arms.
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| #10 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:36:40 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#9, I meant "control arm", got the translation/meaning of "strut" wrong.
"Wachacz" in Polish is control arm but whishbone is also a "wachacz".
Mmmm... a good site. Maybe I'll get how that goddamn Panhard bar works...
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| #11 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:37:08 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#9, As a further note, I'm currently running the factory 4-link with upgraded springs/shocks, plus the style of lower control arm that they describe on the site I linked to--spherical metal on the axle side, polyurethane on the chassis side. Lots of noise/harshness, sadly, but the tail breaks away into a smooth powerslide rather than snap oversteering.
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| #12 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:39:03 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#10, A Panhard bar is a pretty simple device; they even have an image of it towards the bottom--it's attached to the chassis at one end and to the axle on the other. It introduces some very slight side-to-side motion as the suspension travels up and down, but it's a VASTLY more controlled motion than what the control arms themselves would allow (without one, the tail tends to "wag" in hard cornering).
A Watts link is a similar device, but it is attached to the axle in two places and has a fancy pivot point attached to the chassis (they've got a diagram of that, too). It's nicer, but it's also heavier and tends to cause exhaust clearance problems and stuff.
[Edited by Lemming on 2-07-2005 @ 09:43:00 AM]
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| #13 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:43:58 AM |
| Posted By : Low-Tech Redneck |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#12, You also find them on shorttrack race cars, like modifieds, adjusting the bar allows the whole body of the car to lean in the turns and get more grip on the track, the same way a NASCAR team would adjust camber or tire stagger, I used to know a guy who was the crew chief on a dirt-track racecar, and he said that probably 90% of the handling adjustments you can make on a car like that is to the panhard bar, there's even a special votech school/class you can take that does nothing but teach how to manage it
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| #14 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:47:50 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
My econobox suspension (go ahead, laugh: it really IS a great handler... too bad it's FWD and misses an engine >_<):
front: subframe, wishbones and "pseudo-McPherson" struts (springs alignment is a bit off to aligment of shocks)
rear: subframe, control arms (the look WEIRD: very short and basically a space structure rather than a "rod"), shocks.
Of course, front and rear suspesnion uses beefy sway bars :) which can kill you (if someone is not careful and swings the car side-to-side at high speed it becomes a handful suddenly. Nervous SOB :P).
Wheelbase: 2540mm
Front track: 1436
Rear track: 1415
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| #15 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:51:51 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#14, I forgot to mention weight balance. Nose is long and the rear ends, like, 20cm behind rear wheels. I guess that as much as 60% or more weight sits on the front wheels. Sucks. I adjusted my driving so I don't notice it THAT much but I wish I had a Tempra (sedan with a long big trunk).
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| #16 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:53:07 AM |
| Posted By : Lemming |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#13, The NASCAR people also fool around with adjusting the Panhard bar (they usually call it a track bar on TV, I think) to control oversteer/understeer characteristics and whatnot. Speaking of which, although those cars use solid axle rear suspensions, they are not the kind of dinosaurs people make them out to be--nice long trailing arms and stuff.
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| #18 |
2-07-2005 @ 09:58:35 AM |
| Posted By : Sensekhmet |
Reply | Edit | Del |
#17, 990 kilos ready to drive :) Seriously, if it had a 1.8 under the hood and was a Tempra it would fit me perfectly. Wait. I should simply get an Alfa Romeo 155 (Tipo floorpan) with a 155HP 2.0 liter.
As for Panhard/track bar I stubled upon it in NR2003. Looking under NR2003 car I noticed LONG control arms which seem to be mounted on a mini axle somewhere in the middle of the car... WTF?
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